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Very similar software, very similar business model… It looks like Influx is MIT. They just wanted to make things in open source, because they have consumed open source software in their life. I have no personal thing against it. It’s your fault for releasing your intellectual property under that sort of license, and not understanding what it’s going to mean. The API is the same, but the underlying architecture and how everything works together is completely different. …because we just don’t know… But a curious actor… I think there must be something there, right? Do you know what you’re taking on? The means of distribution have changed. There’s some interesting ramifications that I think I would love to see play out as you go about deploying that new idea. So what are they looking to do? It’s like, open source already has tons of problems, because there is multiple actors causing so many issues… Why bother with all that? Vicky, share with us first of all your position in the open source world, what’s your angle at the conversation that we’re having. They basically went down two different routes. And so do you think that – I mean, I don’t know if bias is… As the author of the SSPL, do you believe that the SSPL represents even the spirit of open source, if it’s not officially an open source license, or do you think it’s something different? Is it the marketing value of the term, is it goodwill? Skillsoft has collaborated with FAI to identify and review continuous learning opportunities which align with the FAC-P/PM competencies to assist the federal acquisition workforce in meeting their continuous learning point (CLP) requirements. You can use it in medical devices, but you can’t use it in nuclear weapons, or something like that. But those are much shorter and less complicated… So I think if it were revised, there might be some interesting possibilities to harmonize those definitions. And that’s how we got started. And copyright law treats use and distribution a little bit differently. APN Partners are focused on your success, helping customers take full advantage of the business benefits AWS has to offer. But that’s where you have a core of open source software, usually under (say) Apache, and then you reserve some of the upsell elements for under proprietary or source available licenses. Yeah, I’ve been in free and open source software for over 30 years, and I’ve been doing this specific thing for quite a while now. It is that popular. And at the top of the funnel is everybody who might/could ever use your product; so every possible person who would ever care. Anything else that we didn’t ask you, or anything about the license itself, or about the situation that is being discussed/debated that you wanna say, that we haven’t asked you about? And the idea that that competition exists, and it limits their ability to monetize, also to me feels false. I know that this is a podcast, so people can’t see me, but picture me rolling my eyes right now…, So the trademark thing aside - that’s a different matter; that lawsuit for the trademark is a separate issue. But this is not something that you as a company can afford to ignore, because it can have huge ramifications to your codebase. They’ll probably survive another attack from AWS. Are they gonna succeed, are they gonna fail there? Paul shares his perspective on running an open source business, how Influx Data is innovating their commercial offering while having a permissive MIT license version of Influx DB. Or maybe there are benefits, I don’t know. That’s not great. Users and their roles are discovered from on-premises or … And frankly, if you look at their numbers and their financials, they are doing quite well. We don’t care what you’re doing, because all we want to do is screw over Amazon, and collateral damage be damned.”, So they should have communicated, they should have told people “This is going to be coming.” Maybe they should have done it, for instance, at version 8.0…. Alright, here we go with Heather. The whole reason for this conversation with Heather is because she’s the open-source lawyer who wrote The Server Side Public License (SSPL). The fact that that button exists meant more people were willing to use Chef than they were before. And what happened over time was that the MySQL model, which worked pretty well, began to break when software moved up to the cloud, because the requirements of GPL only kicked in on redistribution, and that wasn’t happening anymore because of cloud deployment. Finally, using Kibana, the logs are visualized and managed as per the … What do you think about the fact that it hasn’t changed in so long - if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. This is not that, and it’s designed specifically not to be that. No, not really. If you want to license your work in a certain way, it’s your choice. So the strong copyleft licenses like GPL, and then later AGPL, and then finally SSPL, were all used – in other contexts as well, but as part of these dual licensing initiatives. So you kind of screwed the trust of your community, and you’ve besmirched your brand, which is going to be incredibly difficult to fix. How did I know? We had a conversation with Heather Meeker on this exact subject, and something she had said - which will be in the same podcast - is if you redlined SSPL versus AGPL, the primary differences that come out is essentially Section 13, which describes if you make the functionality of the program or a modified version available to [unintelligible 00:49:51.17] That’s where the change is, is Section 13. _____ TEST RESULTS VISUAL EXAMINATION Test Assembly Number One Test Assembly Number Two Pass Fail (AWS D1.4, Clause 4.4) Pass Fail (AWS D1.4, Clause 4.4) But I think what’s interesting about that is that what OSI is doing is trying to create community consensus, and isn’t wedded to this written definition. This is a legal matter, but it is not an open source license; it is however being portrayed as open, which everybody is going to interpret as open source, because that’s just the way we speak about things. Here, the logs generated from various sources are collected and processed by Logstash, based on the provided filter criteria. The platform’s open source foundation, scalability, speed, and high availability, as well as the huge and ever-growing community of users, are all excellent reasons for this decision. But the same goes with MongoDB, and their DocumentDB, I guess. Read More. Maybe you just need Lucene. And in that moment, your ability to capture that revenue - every single one of those cut-rate DocumentDB users is a potential lead that’s already using your product. The rest of your time will be helping multiple small customers on their AWS path. Talk about the business side of things for Chef. Internet of Things. Maybe they pick SSPL, whether or not it’s an improved license or not - what do they win or lose based on that? Now I’m reading from Vicky Brasseur’s blog - you probably have read this…, And she says she showed it to some IP lawyers, and she says “By using an SSPL project in your code you are agreeing that if you provide an online service using that code, then you will release not only that code, but also the code for every supporting piece of software, all under the SSPL. Well, you might hear me thank you at least once before I thank you right now for your time, but… Thank you, really, for your time and for this blog post that you shared. …which is on Tech Crunch, and it’s called “AWS gives open source the middle finger.” I think that’s an article that sums up my views pretty well. Over 14 percent, or 260,000 employees, in the federal workforce have a disability. SSPL is used as part of a dual licensing model, and that is something that has been around for a long time, but it’s not as popular as it once was. They continue to do that. , Amazon: NOT OK - why we had to change Elastic licensing, Stepping up for a truly open source Elasticsearch, MongoDB transitions to Server Side Public License (SSPL) for MongoDB Community Server, Elastic Changes Licences for Elasticsearch and Kibana: AWS Forks Both, annotated version of the Open Source Definition, Keeping Open Source Open – Open Distro for Elasticsearch, Initial thoughts on MongoDB’s new Server Side Public License, SSPL approval process on the OSI mailing list, The Changelog #353: The war for the soul of open source with Adam Jacob, The Changelog #424: You can FINALLY use JSHint for evil with Mike Pennisi, The Changelog #371: Re-licensing Sentry with David Cramer, The Changelog #322: There and back again (Dgraph’s tale) with Manish Jain, Adam Jacob at OSCON 2019 “The war for the soul of open source!”, https://twitter.com/pauldix/status/1352604892754542594, https://twitter.com/pauldix/status/1352615503366381570, https://twitter.com/pauldix/status/1352727425717825536, Elasticsearch and Kibana are now business risks. With Skillsoft, the USO developed a standard learning program for new hires to complete within 90 days. Yeah, it’s a bit disconnected. So yeah, I think the open source theme is similar there. Is it a real risk for Elastic, or no? Featured CourseLearn how to leverage the talents of your diverse workforce, and bring new perspectives to the table. The reason that companies adopted them in a dual licensing strategy is that they were intending that people who are using the software commercially would probably have to come negotiate for a license. Well, I actually agree with you that it’s kind of a good thing and a bad thing… It has worked pretty well over the years, and it’s been remarkably robust over the years. Because in one point of view, you’re like “Well, competition sucks. This is true of every business. Once you ship something in an open source release, it’s much more painful to ship a fix, ship an update. We have to remember, there are two really big projects here that have been relicensed. You’re…. Just the sheer magnitude of what’s possible is really high. This article explains how to modify SELinux settings to permit full functionality. Yeah, so I’m Paul Dix, I’m the CTO and co-founder of Influx Data. And obviously, all their customers are saying “Host Elastic for us.” And then Elastic is trying to say like “Oh, we’re doing this to protect ourselves from Amazon, because they’re stealing from us”, and the truth is there are tons of hosting companies that have been hosting Elastic for a long time. Well, I’m just a normal, everyday web developer from Sweden. AWS IoT … SSPL was drafted in order to meet a need in a particular way. And if they’re building a better product offering than we are…” - I’m sorry, folks; we live in a capitalistic system. Well, Heather, thank you so much for joining us and explaining these things in ways that we could only fumble around in the dark to understand. The value of the channel is that it’s massively huge. But what was really interesting about that is that the license was released on GitHub, and – by the way, I think it may have been more a thought experiment than anything else… But it then caused that GitHub repository to become a vehicle for people to discuss the issue. Up next we’re talking to Manish Jain, founder and CTO at Dgraph Labs. So you’re not an open source purist then. Logstash is a server‑side data processing pipeline that ingests data from multiple sources simultaneously, transforms it, and then sends it to a "stash" like Elasticsearch. They put it out there under a permissive Apache 2.0 license, without thinking “Somebody can now build a better product offering on top of this, very easily. And I’m paraphrasing, but what I can recall from that conversation (episode 371, Re-licensing Sentry), was essentially David was saying “I wanna do whatever it takes to help me run this commercial business, but also respect open source. And SSPL will be there, too. There were also a lot of comments about who had drafted it, the process by which it was drafted, and what Mongo’s intent was in creating the license. Amazon EFS provides file storage for your Amazon EC2 instances. What’s the goal of this license? They’ve violated the trust of their community, and you can’t really get that back at this point. Our AWS tutorial is designed for beginners and professionals. We’d have anywhere from two to four feature-bearing releases a year, which could then get shipped to our cloud customers and shipped to our on-premise customers. AWS का फुल फॉर्म, AWS Kya Hai, AWS Full Form, AWS Meaning, AWS Abbreviation AWS Full Form Hindi AWS का फुलफॉर्म Amazon Web Services और हिंदी में AWS का Elastic changes open-source license to monetize cloud-service use. We appreciate it. Maybe it’s time to revisit it, but that would also be a very long process, and possibly very controversial. I’m just curious; where do you get your info? Don’t go doing something just because it’s what everyone else is doing. But that’s not the way it is. And they might be building on the free version. We believe this is a basic human right for people regardless of their abilities. Our transcripts are open source on GitHub. And don’t get me wrong, these kinds of provisions are very complicated to read, so it’s hard to reduce them to soundbites. They changed the license on me. You can compete with us; that’s fine. For information about how to create and use shared AMIs, see I do think that Amazon was rolling the dice on that one, and they lost, and I think they will lose in that particular trademark thing. And would that change your outlook at all if that rev share was gone? I think those kinds of ideas though sometimes seem so logical, but yet not everybody thinks like that. The price of being really open source is that you’re giving software away for free, yes, but –, You’re being permissive, but that also means that anybody could take your software and compete with you, which you have to be okay with. David Cramer has shared some of his sentiment on that subject, because Sentry was licensed BSD 3, and transitioned to the BSL. The mean stack is used for the development of the website. They’re just free-riding all the features that you’re building. Mongo, on the other hand, wanted to see if they could create a license that was an open source license, but that managed this issue. Right. We’d love to have you back on the show. Learn to successfully lead others while improving your EQ. On January 21st, Elastic posted a blog post sharing their concerns with Amazon/AWS misleading and confusing the community, saying “They have been doing things that we think are just NOT OK since 2015 and it has only gotten worse.” This lead them to relicense Elasticsearch and Kibana with a dual license, a proprietary license and the Sever Side Public License (SSPL). This would not have concerned you, or offended you, or changed the way you looked at Elasticsearch? And so when we’re designing and thinking about our businesses, what tends to happen is we think about the revenue that that channel produces as belonging to us. So from a pure mercenary investor perspective, I’m long Mongo but I’m short Elastic, and it has nothing to do with the license. Now that we're on the same page about what a case is, let's talk about when to open one. Yeah. I read the article from Elastic on Hacker News. Now is the perfect time to brush up those business skillsLearn real-world strategies for creative problem solving, improved communication skills, team-building and leadership, and so much more. Do you see what I mean? But it doesn’t. But MongoDB is a big name, so MongoDB could get the industry around SSPL… And then we don’t have a debate, because it will be open source. So what is actually happening right now is a bunch of open source companies, which truly believe in open source, are having to switch to “non-open-source” licenses. You wouldn’t need a consultant at that point. There are business models, and then there is open source. OSD being the Open Source Definition. So what do you think? It just means that people can’t start competing project with you without putting themselves at risk of being accused of taking your code, or whatever. Featured CourseHappy customers are loyal customers. I saw a lot of comments on Hacker News that were like “Oh, Amazon is all in the right” and yadda-yadda… But they have actually done the same with MongoDB liek two years ago, I guess, where they pushed them to basically relicense, because they simply don’t want to pay (I guess) their fees. Learn how to communicate effectively and polish your customer service skills. Another way to think about this is the open source thing represents the data plane, whereas our closed source product represents the control plane. So the reason why I say it’s complementary is because what I want is I want our cloud product to be running the open source bits exactly as is, exactly as the open source community experiences them… Because it means we’ll find bugs faster, and it also means we can have more of a collaborative effort with the community in terms of making improvements… Right now, with our Cloud 2.0 offering – InfluxDB 2.0 open source is one project. The same thing is true in open source business models. The bottom of the funnel is customers, people who pay you money for the privilege. Using EKS, you can plan, schedule, and execute your batch computing workloads across the full range of AWS compute services and features, such as Amazon EC2, Fargate, and Spot Instances. We hope these Amazon Web Services Tutorials are useful and will help you to get the best job in the industry. What were the deciding factors? Browse Webinars, Podcasts, Research Reports, Video Testimonials and so much more! So it does raise an interesting question about the clarity of the criteria and the process… But you know, this is a community process, so those are always – they are living, breathing things, and they get developed as they go, and people are always pushing for transparency, but it can never be perfect. So a lot of people are building on this. We definitely wanna have you back once you’ve rolled out this new - what do you call it, complementary model? ACRONYMS & ABBREVIATIONS; BABY NAMES; AWS Full Form. Today we will tell you AWS Full Form along with the complete information of AWS. AWS ELK Terraform module. One is the open source part, and the other one is the completely proprietary part. - Amazon Web Services - Amazon Web Services (AWS) is a cloud computing platform from Amazon that provides customers a Like many in the community, we have been watching this very closely. Is there no transparency to that change? You’ll find these type of treasures hidden in Q&A threads, but not in any easy to understand guide in AWS documentation. They screwed that up. If they’re relicensing as a reaction to that, then it’s essentially them stamping that little princess foot, taking their ball and going home… And it’s a childish reaction to a trademark infringement lawsuit. AWS IoT Button Cloud programmable dash button. We talked with Manish a little over two years ago on episode #322 about their challenges with licensing and re-licensing Dgraph — so, we thought it would fitting to get him on this episode. Well, we’re glad we’ve got you on the show then. At least 3 years’ experience of maintaining Linux systems in AWS. To know whether your account is with AWS or AISPL, see Determining which company your account is … Well, I read a lot of comments and I read the Amazon article as well one day, that was posted, about forking the repo after they relicensed Elastic… And I really don’t even use Elastic or Amazon Web Services [unintelligible 01:40:26.01] But I care a lot about open source in general, so…. Project management fundamentals Develop in-depth project management knowledge and skills based upon the Project Management Institute's PMBOK® Guide. We share our insights on everything from the latest industry trends to tips for success. If you masquerade as fauxpen source - is that right, Jerod? Elastic’s licensing, the way they have done it is that they had their open source code collocated with their proprietary code; it’s all source visible, except the open sources under Apache, if I’m not wrong, and then the proprietary code is under Elastic… Similar to Dgraph - our open source code is Apache, and our proprietary code is under Dgraph license.

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